@1101145072 -sterling.freenode.net- anti (russ@anti.developer.gentoo) joined the channel @1101145078 -sterling.freenode.net- roger55 (~roger@roger55.developer.gentoo) joined the channel @1101145084 what are we ranting about @1101145089 i have to finish grading exams today, but i'd like to start the discussion if anyone is interested @1101145097 gentoo technical support for $$$ ? :-) @1101145100 discussion being? @1101145101 ah @1101145105 making money with gentoo yes @1101145125 well, selling our enormous expertise @1101145125 [bonsaikitten_!~pal@bonsaikitten.developer.gentoo] ACTION points at gentooenterprise.org where exactly that should happen @1101145136 there's already something? @1101145145 my domain, my server, website will appear as soon as I have time @1101145147 I'm one of the senior engineers are the company I work for, and out of 50 production systems, all but 3 run gentoo :) @1101145151 100G space for gentoo devs :-) @1101145174 [ferringb!~ferringb@ferringb.developer.gentoo] ACTION would suspect package server is a decent start @1101145185 usual bitch/rant people have regarding gentoo. @1101145188 i posted one or two list things a while back about a gentoo consulting co-op of some kind @1101145192 I wanted to finish some other stuff before officially officially announcing it @1101145201 [ferringb!~ferringb@ferringb.developer.gentoo] ACTION recalls @1101145214 ferringb, that'll only fly if people _pay_ for the traffic though @1101145215 nerdboy: don't recall if it went anywhere, although it was an interesting idea @1101145217 where we use a centralized structure to farm out work to local devs/others @1101145241 nerdboy, plus links to companies using gentoo of course @1101145245 we should have local (on-site) people all over, right? @1101145246 bonsaikitten_: per machine I'd suspect, although that gets fun w/ proxies/natting. @1101145256 ferringb, account based? @1101145279 nerdboy, I think europe and north america are most dense @1101145293 bonsaikitten_: course. just a question (to me) if you meter it based on bandwidth, or per system. @1101145295 yup, but elsewhere too @1101145298 latter can be abused easily. @1101145324 former (being a capatalistic pig) isn't the greatest due to possibility of users setting up their own caches @1101145333 etc. @1101145347 i was thinking of some loose organizational structure with some tools/docs for deployment and integration @1101145360 ferringb, which is not that much of a problem since they use less traffic ? @1101145370 a core group of devs and local contacts for each job @1101145407 mostly gentoo of course, but requirements need to be looked at @1101145426 [bonsaikitten_!~pal@bonsaikitten.developer.gentoo] ACTION also has gentooexperimental.org for more fun @1101145430 bonsaikitten_: well, like I said, being a capatalistic pig... problem is that that you end up supporting 500 machines, yet they're only paying you for a single feed (pull it all down to their own local cache, and have the 500 machines use said cache) @1101145460 ferringb, how can we handle per-machine id without being DRM bastards? @1101145461 so, something like at least a web site and irc discussion for stuff, including some geeky marketing stuff @1101145473 you can't, really. @1101145479 at least how I've thought about it. @1101145484 ferringb, so make it unit-based @1101145490 25$/question @1101145501 (namesys does it that way) @1101145507 dunno @1101145509 i was thinking more design and integration work @1101145517 I'd think that would work better. @1101145519 but ongoing support is good too @1101145526 nerdboy, you can do that on so many levels ... @1101145535 bonsaikitten_: if you charge per question, then you're deflecting the customers onto the forums/ml to be cheap asses. @1101145539 -sterling.freenode.net- KingTaco|laptop (~KingTaco@dsl-232-31.speedsite.com) joined the channel @1101145539 -sterling.freenode.net- ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) changed mode: +o KingTaco|laptop @1101145545 right, which is why discussion and hoing is required @1101145549 if they have a clue, hey, no complaints. but if they don't, then the community gets flooded. @1101145553 agreed @1101145557 *honing things down even @1101145566 [ferringb!~ferringb@ferringb.developer.gentoo] ACTION nods @1101145588 might be a couple differnet thrusts, maybe a subscription spinoff thing @1101145610 but i was thinkin mostly of custom design and integration @1101145621 good idea @1101145625 server-side stuff, anything from fax servers to web/email @1101145634 nerdboy: design/integration certainly would be more interesting/entertaining. @1101145635 small to medium networks @1101145643 I hope I get basic mailinglists up during the week, then we can focus our discussion a bit more @1101145648 security solutions @1101145667 i'm sure we have many skills @1101145680 well, full signage of the tree would be needed (imo) for any true corporate deployment. @1101145688 otherwise it has to be implemented on their end @1101145703 we just need to craft a structure and some topic areas @1101145713 [ferringb!~ferringb@ferringb.developer.gentoo] ACTION nods @1101145733 basically a geeky business plan kind-of-a-thing @1101145759 nerdboy, also get LPI to do gentoo-based linux certificates @1101145779 also decide whether we want a non-profit thing, or an s-corp, or what @1101145789 depends on location etc. @1101145793 i think some basic support is good @1101145800 non-profit will be difficult I think @1101145830 that would make it easy to link with other non-profits and educational institutions @1101145855 but maybe also have some impact otherwise @1101145869 i don't claim to be a business dweeb @1101145872 heh @1101145877 [bonsaikitten_!~pal@bonsaikitten.developer.gentoo] ACTION summons a few lawyers @1101145895 but i don know an s-corp pays back profits to the peopple @1101145914 at the end of the year, so there's no corporate tax i guess @1101145929 *do @1101145947 -sterling.freenode.net- Blondeguy (~blondeguy@dpc67143196121.direcpc.com) joined the channel @1101145948 needs more exploration etc. @1101145963 but i think a low-overhead grant-admin thing makes sense @1101146008 and either profits go back into the org (non-profit) or paid out to everyone yearly (s-corp) @1101146032 as long as there is a nice salary either way, i'm happy @1101146035 hehe @1101146037 same here @1101146051 I've invested enough in my server to want some ROI @1101146104 i think an important part is building some basic tools/configs/deployment scripts/docs whatever @1101146111 yes @1101146117 as a core set for everyone to use @1101146151 that way we can hopefully maximize both productivity and repeatability @1101146169 basically some internal standards and what-not @1101146199 excellent idea @1101146205 you're hired @1101146205 ;-) @1101146208 so a little bit of incoming revenue should support development and maintenance of that stuff @1101146238 yes @1101146242 chain reaction :-) @1101146245 but the good non-profit or grant type admin overhead should be less that 5% @1101146261 the more development happens, the better the tools are, the more money we get @1101146269 so we can be less costly and still do well @1101146342 direct to small-medium business stuff should be straight forward, but some kind of structure/front is required to support bids on things @1101146365 unless we stick to subbing and let the prime do that @1101146411 but depending on what we look like, maybe a women/minority thing, then we'd get a leg up on certain things @1101146427 we have a high coolness factor @1101146427 get to prime and a bigger slice :) @1101146464 I've heard lots of good responses to gentoo, so I think an "official" front would create lots of work @1101146473 me too @1101146506 plus the other way round (where someone local says "hey, i can bring in the Gentoo Group" @1101146523 yes @1101146537 and in .de we have so many devs that good things will happen @1101146547 it's a good time to be a gentoo hax0r @1101146600 for the skills yes, but with a certain amount of professionalism (and hygeine too :) @1101146627 hehe @1101146633 my boss still talks to me about my email skills... @1101146644 too much blunt honesty i guess @1101146648 erm? @1101146669 when i get geeky with outside people @1101146678 hehe @1101146687 btw, "default profiles" would be nice @1101146688 he says i need to be more "diplomatic" @1101146698 "webserver", "desktop", ... @1101146715 but what it really means is "i have to be patient with the dumbasses" @1101146722 mostly @1101146746 bonsaikitten_: yes, that's covered under deployment @1101146759 but maybe more granular at the service level @1101146782 so you can say "emerge server-with-nfs-email-foo" @1101146790 or something @1101146798 I've started evaluating a toolkit rewrite with a friend, many gentoo scripts need some lovin @1101146810 creating a managment interface from that should be doable @1101146817 have you seen infrastructures.org? @1101146840 i can visualize some cool deployment tools.. @1101146859 coolness @1101146865 assimilate at all costs ;-) @1101146911 also sane daemon managment @1101146917 http://www.infrastructures.org/ @1101146921 so many things on the todo list :-) @1101146928 read the gold server thing and think Gentoo... @1101146942 so i have to grade @1101146946 -sterling.freenode.net- KingTaco|laptop (~KingTaco@dsl-232-31.speedsite.com) joined the channel @1101146946 -sterling.freenode.net- ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) changed mode: +o KingTaco|laptop @1101146953 yay! @1101146962 but i'd like to keep this up over the next few days/weeks @1101146966 [bonsaikitten_!~pal@bonsaikitten.developer.gentoo] ACTION sends an assimilation squad to infrastructures.org @1101147024 but by next week i'd like to get at least an irc channel and email list for us @1101147054 i'll setup a channel in the next few days @1101147147 email can be run from my server @1101147519 [bonsaikitten_!~pal@bonsaikitten.developer.gentoo] ACTION adds nerdboy to the list of people to keep up-to-date @1101147820 i think the first thing to push is requirements analysis @1101147839 yes @1101147850 you are free to write a whitepaper on that @1101147851 ;-) @1101147860 even if we don't design/build it, we can evaluate their stuff, both existing and new @1101147883 yes @1101147902 maybe take an impartial look at their other vendors/solutions @1101147928 whatever works ... @1101147936 lifecycle costs, integration issues, yada yada @1101147948 TCO? ;-) @1101147966 no buzzwords please... @1101148001 but lifecycle costs are real and often not evaluated for shit @1101148003 I'm playing bullshit bingo @1101148008 i know @1101148030 if we can offer a proactive enterprise-grade paradigm-shifting global solution we have enough buzzwords ;-) @1101148056 pick one each from column A, B, and C @1101148134 i guess lifecycle costs is a sexy term, so they needed a three-letter-acronym @1101148139 *isn't @1101148149 TLAs are overrated ;-) @1101148166 but that's what those guys do since they can't do anything else... @1101148198 management is often such a mind-fuck i don't know how they do it @1101148213 I was thinking about adding an MBA to my CS diploma, but that marketingspeak is acsry @1101148259 i think there are things of value to learn there if you can scrape the shit off it @1101148300 yes, but there's so much manure that you'll start smelling if you work too much with it @1101148310 nudge nudge winkwink say no more @1101148338 throw it in the autoclave first? @1101148368 hehe @1101148372 where to get one? @1101148395 alright, i need to concentrate so i might not say too much for several hours @1101148402 ok @1101148408 [bonsaikitten_!~pal@bonsaikitten.developer.gentoo] ACTION needs to work too @1101148411 class tonight and all that @1101148475 say hi to wormo if you see her (hansmi and i are mentoring her) @1101148490 ok @1101148511 she's working on the first quiz @1101148551 she also has her own s-corp (which is why i know a little) @1101148562 s-corp? @1101148592 the pay-yourself-profits-yearly kind of corporation @1101148686 she does embedded linux stuff @1101148885 -sterling.freenode.net- jcowan (~jcowan@a7cebc03.cst.lightpath.net) joined the channel @1101148899 yo @1101148917 [nerdboy!~sarnold@nerdboy-gentoo.active.supporter.pdpc] ACTION <= grading exams @1101149078 teddybot: do you really think so? @1101149079 Are you sure? @1101149082 Huh. @1101149086 -sterling.freenode.net- jcowan (~jcowan@a7cebc03.cst.lightpath.net) left the channel